37 thoughts on “Why Meta Players Hate Zhongli (And why they're wrong) | Genshin Impact 4.0 Guide & Analysis”
i swear alot of Players underestimate his 20% all def shred this is huge for non vv able elements aka physical,dendro,geo teams and shields is most of the time better than heals because of its untiinteraption properties of it
I am not a meta player but I still hate Zhongli. Personally, I feel like he takes away a lot from the game by making you invincible and ignoring game mechanics, but that's me. I'm not everyone, I like it when the game is difficult and kicking my ass…actually it's the only way I have fun playing games, so I'm definitely the minority.
Also, I disagree with your comparison on what's "meta". The FGO comparison is still just kill stuff as fast and as efficiently as possible…which Zhongli does not do. It's why Eula is not meta. You can do 1 billion damage with her burst, but enemies are not going to have that much health so that damage is wasted. Skadi forces your main dps to oneshot each wave repeatedly. When you are farming you don't need that 1 billion damage.
It's why in a lot of these turn based games, the best farm build is not just damage but speed. If Zhongli was in FGO, he would just make you invincible. Eventually you will win, but it will be slow. It's a war of attrition.
That is not what "META" is, META stands for "Most Effective Tactics Available". To effectively and quickly beat the content. Farming ores is not content. You seem to have forgotten or, at the very least, misunderstood what "META" means.
The "just dodge" argument is stupid, many Abyss floor have many enemies active at once, all acting indepent of each other, the dodge has limit uses, you could easily do 2 perfect dodges and still get punished by a 3° or 4° attack afterwards, there is nothing preventing the player to be overwheelmed by bad luck with the enemy AI
P.S: I disagree that Zhong Li doesn't contribute to your damage. Why? Simple, as long as you are protected by his shield, you don't waste time dodging, or getting interupted by enemy attacks
In my opinion zhongly is beyond comfort, I didn't pull for him and I'm not planning to because it is really to easy to play with him in the team and all those quality of life improvements that you mentioned can also be done by other characters, for example you can easily break the crystals with ningguang (probably I've spelled it wrong , im sorry don't hate me)
He is not meta. He's B tier character. His ult animation his to long and deals little dmg. The cc is good but is to short, the res is solid but most of the time zhon is a dps loss. But he is one of the pulls in the game because you activate god mode XD
I don't even run Zhongli in overworld anymore, let alone in Abyss. No complaints (he does his assigned job well), but he's just not that guy if you want actual useful stuff done. The meta overworld team IMO is all +movement units chained into each other, e.g. Wanderer, Yelan, Sayu, Lynette, Ayaka/Mona, etc. At a certain point in endgame, ore becomes worthless to farm as you will constantly hit the 9999 xp crystal limit and need to keep deleting them from inventory to get other rewards. If you're still struggling from dying to bosses, it is far more efficient to co-op and let other people curb stomp them rather than to blow your limited primos just to buy a shield.
Personally I do not like Zhongli very much, and I think the issue that I have is not that I find his defensive utility bad or unimportant (I actually value survivability and comfort a lot), but rather you can get similar defensive utility by combining other units that also give you better overall teams. Let me explain…
A shield consists of two things: damage immunity and poise/interrupt resist. Pseudo-Damage immunity can also be achieved by a strong healer, and units like Xingqiu give poise along with certain units like Raiden or Eula getting free unlimited poise during their bursts. Good teambuilding can often give you a "pseudo-shield" with often even better survivability and much higher team DPS, thanks to busted units like Bennett (who heals and also gives a massive damage buff) and Xingqiu (who gives damage reduction and interrupt resist whilst also doing high damage and applying a lot of hydro). Other 5 star defensive characters like Kokomi and Baizhu also give a huge amount of survivability whilst also applying a useful element.
Effective team building is about maximizing damage whilst also giving you an adequate amount of survivability. Due to Zhongli's element and kit design, he often needs to be used in the "flex" slot of teams, which in many cases is an anemo unit ie Kazuha. The issue is, Kazuha (and Sucrose) are busted, giving 40% res shred instead of 20% that ZL shield provides, and also giving huge personal buffs like 40% elemental dmg bonus or 200+ EM, providing more personal damage by just stacking EM, and also providing CC and grouping which can be invaluable. This disparity is simply too much for me to swallow! Other defensive units sidestep this issue by instead being an integral part of the team they are in.
An example of this is something like Alhaitham/Nahida/Kuki/Xingqiu- Kuki provides healing and XQ reduces damage taken and also gives a lot of poise. Together Kuki and Xingqiu function as a sort of pseudo-shield core. But Kuki also has massive personal dps contribution due to hyperbloom and XQ applies a lot of hydro to make bloom cores. Hence, you're hitting two birds with one stone, both getting great survivability and great damage. Even in teams like Ganyu Melt, Zhongli is gradually getting phased out since burn-melt with Dehya is actually easier to play and has less energy requirements (due to not needing Xiangling burst).
I'd like to also mention that pseudo-shields by combining healing and poise have another benefit which is they don't break ever. Like it or not, MHY has gradually been introducing units that deal more and more damage, and ZL's shield, which was seen as unbreakable before, is now definitely breakable by the hardest-hitting enemies like consecrated beasts. Who knows what more devilspawn MHY has in stock for us? Unlike shields whose survivability are finite, healing + poise have virtually unlimited survivability within a certain timeframe, which fits better with team rotations and is more futureproof.
Basically, Zhongli is a comfort pick that will skyrocket your enjoyment of this game. However, he can be less good in certain teams, notably Dendro ones.
I mean… I kinda agree and disagree with this take. His shield is great, especially for beginners doing overworld bosses and domains but his value drops a lot in late game where bosses become cakewalk, enemies in the overworld you can just one shot and in domains where you'd usually just run an optimized team.
It's quite unfortunate I'm regretting zhongli rn… I pulled him for Eula team but later on didn't feel the need to pull eula and none of my characters really need zhongli rn (aside from xiao but I don't play him anymore) so my zhongli is benched for months now…
About newer players tho, I think zhongli might not be a good pull despite him carrying with shield… Cuz well the popular "forgetting the dodge" phrase… Well I do get that it's not important for everyone to learn how to dodge, there is an argument to be made for knowing about it at a low AR because assuming someone goes to abyss someday, one of his team might just die because of a lack of shield, and also iframing is very cool imo xD
also wdym he trivializes overworld man just run any carry the enemies will die in 2 hits and they get stunned so easily (depending on the carry) that you'll barely ever get hit 💀💀, there's sometimes i won't even activate my healer because, they die that easily, even the bosses
Even as a casual non meta player but I like meta characters for what they're abilities provide their kit and their cool playstyles and design zhongli is quite disappointing that ult damage wise sucks yes ik he's a shielded tank character and geo is dogsh*t but still no crit and minimal damage atleast he gets shield off cooldown really quick he just feels lackluster and most smart ppl prob have him c0 or maybe almost c2 doubt many players whaled unless they really like him but he's still really useful so I'd use him on really difficult abyss floors just so my dps can do more dps but what do I know I'm a f2p btw he's god tier for f2ps since our accounts either dog or we suck at the mechanics of combat! For me it's the ladder😅
I only use Zhongli with Yoimiya and Ganyu, sometimes Xiao but I've been using c6 Thoma for that too. For Wanderer I team with Layla so i can get crit boost.
My Zhongli has crit and geo dmg cup and still has 35k hp which is good enough for the most part.
someone has to be really dumb to call themselves a meta player and say that Zhongli its not meta only because he doesn't have a high damage contribution, have they never heard the importance of buffers and debuffers?
Zhongli is a Jack of all trades, master of none. Pretty much all teams will benefit from his support capabilities but he will rarely be the best/strongest option in those teams. HOWEVER, this is a Gacha game and getting new characters for all the new teams takes a good amount og luck, time and patience (and can be very expensive if you don't have either of those things) so having a strong 5 star character that can cover that shield support and resistance shred role in EVERY team is pretty damn useful and worthwhile in a game like Genshin. He's also incredibly easy to build and doesn't need godroll artifacts to function. Add this on top of all the things you mentioned in the video and he becomes a 5/5 to me.
I am sorry but you are quite awfull at logic… On one hand you make these videos about meta, then turn around and say that the abyss is only 10% of the game …but you still rank him on meta and on top of that you pretend that the people who care about meta are crazy, despite the fact that this discussion is specifically about meta. This means that you got into this discussion and then ask why the discussion is the way it is despite knowing full well what you were getting into….
I am soo tired of relativists like you who want to have their cake and eat it too.
Also, Zhongli IS good and he does not need your shit sophestry for him to be good. He is good because he is the only character who offers a shield as sturdy as his and as such, because of supply and demand, he IS a good character.
When it comes to floor 12, who need a zhongli when you have a C6 Eula, R5 broken pine, C4 Xinyan, C3 Bennet, and C0 Raiden??????? I’m very confused. Well, not 12-1-2, but for 12-2-2 and 12-3-2, east dub
Im sorry but if you don't care about the abyss then that means you don't care about the meta, in the overworld you can even use xinyan and you will be fine.. for someone who wants to do the abyss in the most optimal way possible your advice is horrible.
If you want to pull him then pull no one is stopping you but don't expect people to lie to you saying zhongli is the best and he is op because he is not.
I like his character but i dont feel like i need to pull him, even after pulling ganyu, yoi, lyney and klee. Kirara, thoma, tankfei and layla already make me comfy so i feel like he wouldnt be a good pull.
You are here complaining about meta ppayers while simultaniously advocating for skiping dialouge… let me give you a tip: if you don't want to play the game. You can just not play the fing game…
i swear alot of Players underestimate his 20% all def shred this is huge for non vv able elements aka physical,dendro,geo teams and shields is most of the time better than heals because of its untiinteraption properties of it
I am not a meta player but I still hate Zhongli. Personally, I feel like he takes away a lot from the game by making you invincible and ignoring game mechanics, but that's me. I'm not everyone, I like it when the game is difficult and kicking my ass…actually it's the only way I have fun playing games, so I'm definitely the minority.
Also, I disagree with your comparison on what's "meta". The FGO comparison is still just kill stuff as fast and as efficiently as possible…which Zhongli does not do. It's why Eula is not meta. You can do 1 billion damage with her burst, but enemies are not going to have that much health so that damage is wasted. Skadi forces your main dps to oneshot each wave repeatedly. When you are farming you don't need that 1 billion damage.
It's why in a lot of these turn based games, the best farm build is not just damage but speed. If Zhongli was in FGO, he would just make you invincible. Eventually you will win, but it will be slow. It's a war of attrition.
That is not what "META" is, META stands for "Most Effective Tactics Available". To effectively and quickly beat the content. Farming ores is not content. You seem to have forgotten or, at the very least, misunderstood what "META" means.
The "just dodge" argument is stupid, many Abyss floor have many enemies active at once, all acting indepent of each other, the dodge has limit uses, you could easily do 2 perfect dodges and still get punished by a 3° or 4° attack afterwards, there is nothing preventing the player to be overwheelmed by bad luck with the enemy AI
P.S: I disagree that Zhong Li doesn't contribute to your damage. Why? Simple, as long as you are protected by his shield, you don't waste time dodging, or getting interupted by enemy attacks
In my opinion zhongly is beyond comfort, I didn't pull for him and I'm not planning to because it is really to easy to play with him in the team and all those quality of life improvements that you mentioned can also be done by other characters, for example you can easily break the crystals with ningguang (probably I've spelled it wrong , im sorry don't hate me)
He is not meta. He's B tier character. His ult animation his to long and deals little dmg. The cc is good but is to short, the res is solid but most of the time zhon is a dps loss. But he is one of the pulls in the game because you activate god mode XD
''just dont get hit''
I don't even run Zhongli in overworld anymore, let alone in Abyss. No complaints (he does his assigned job well), but he's just not that guy if you want actual useful stuff done.
The meta overworld team IMO is all +movement units chained into each other, e.g. Wanderer, Yelan, Sayu, Lynette, Ayaka/Mona, etc.
At a certain point in endgame, ore becomes worthless to farm as you will constantly hit the 9999 xp crystal limit and need to keep deleting them from inventory to get other rewards.
If you're still struggling from dying to bosses, it is far more efficient to co-op and let other people curb stomp them rather than to blow your limited primos just to buy a shield.
Personally I do not like Zhongli very much, and I think the issue that I have is not that I find his defensive utility bad or unimportant (I actually value survivability and comfort a lot), but rather you can get similar defensive utility by combining other units that also give you better overall teams. Let me explain…
A shield consists of two things: damage immunity and poise/interrupt resist. Pseudo-Damage immunity can also be achieved by a strong healer, and units like Xingqiu give poise along with certain units like Raiden or Eula getting free unlimited poise during their bursts. Good teambuilding can often give you a "pseudo-shield" with often even better survivability and much higher team DPS, thanks to busted units like Bennett (who heals and also gives a massive damage buff) and Xingqiu (who gives damage reduction and interrupt resist whilst also doing high damage and applying a lot of hydro). Other 5 star defensive characters like Kokomi and Baizhu also give a huge amount of survivability whilst also applying a useful element.
Effective team building is about maximizing damage whilst also giving you an adequate amount of survivability. Due to Zhongli's element and kit design, he often needs to be used in the "flex" slot of teams, which in many cases is an anemo unit ie Kazuha. The issue is, Kazuha (and Sucrose) are busted, giving 40% res shred instead of 20% that ZL shield provides, and also giving huge personal buffs like 40% elemental dmg bonus or 200+ EM, providing more personal damage by just stacking EM, and also providing CC and grouping which can be invaluable. This disparity is simply too much for me to swallow! Other defensive units sidestep this issue by instead being an integral part of the team they are in.
An example of this is something like Alhaitham/Nahida/Kuki/Xingqiu- Kuki provides healing and XQ reduces damage taken and also gives a lot of poise. Together Kuki and Xingqiu function as a sort of pseudo-shield core. But Kuki also has massive personal dps contribution due to hyperbloom and XQ applies a lot of hydro to make bloom cores. Hence, you're hitting two birds with one stone, both getting great survivability and great damage. Even in teams like Ganyu Melt, Zhongli is gradually getting phased out since burn-melt with Dehya is actually easier to play and has less energy requirements (due to not needing Xiangling burst).
I'd like to also mention that pseudo-shields by combining healing and poise have another benefit which is they don't break ever. Like it or not, MHY has gradually been introducing units that deal more and more damage, and ZL's shield, which was seen as unbreakable before, is now definitely breakable by the hardest-hitting enemies like consecrated beasts. Who knows what more devilspawn MHY has in stock for us? Unlike shields whose survivability are finite, healing + poise have virtually unlimited survivability within a certain timeframe, which fits better with team rotations and is more futureproof.
Basically, Zhongli is a comfort pick that will skyrocket your enjoyment of this game. However, he can be less good in certain teams, notably Dendro ones.
Good luck on floor 12 abyss with 4 damage dealers and no defensive option lol
I was almost considering on not pulling Zhongli so that I could save for 4.1, but then seeing your vid pled for my consideration of him.
Who in their right mind thinks zhongli isn't still op
another banger as always
Video on childe when???
I mean… I kinda agree and disagree with this take. His shield is great, especially for beginners doing overworld bosses and domains but his value drops a lot in late game where bosses become cakewalk, enemies in the overworld you can just one shot and in domains where you'd usually just run an optimized team.
It's quite unfortunate I'm regretting zhongli rn… I pulled him for Eula team but later on didn't feel the need to pull eula and none of my characters really need zhongli rn (aside from xiao but I don't play him anymore) so my zhongli is benched for months now…
About newer players tho, I think zhongli might not be a good pull despite him carrying with shield… Cuz well the popular "forgetting the dodge" phrase… Well I do get that it's not important for everyone to learn how to dodge, there is an argument to be made for knowing about it at a low AR because assuming someone goes to abyss someday, one of his team might just die because of a lack of shield, and also iframing is very cool imo xD
If we're realistic, the Abyss is more like 0.1% of the game
i agree but it sounds like skill issue to me
also wdym he trivializes overworld man just run any carry the enemies will die in 2 hits and they get stunned so easily (depending on the carry) that you'll barely ever get hit 💀💀, there's sometimes i won't even activate my healer because, they die that easily, even the bosses
If that Nikke account in the example clip is yours, then a salute to you for crushing the pain train. Also good video about why Zhongli is good.
or just use layla, but hey, im not stopping you, do whatever you want with your primogems 🤷♂
Even as a casual non meta player but I like meta characters for what they're abilities provide their kit and their cool playstyles and design zhongli is quite disappointing that ult damage wise sucks yes ik he's a shielded tank character and geo is dogsh*t but still no crit and minimal damage atleast he gets shield off cooldown really quick he just feels lackluster and most smart ppl prob have him c0 or maybe almost c2 doubt many players whaled unless they really like him but he's still really useful so I'd use him on really difficult abyss floors just so my dps can do more dps but what do I know I'm a f2p btw he's god tier for f2ps since our accounts either dog or we suck at the mechanics of combat! For me it's the ladder😅
He's the definition of skill issue, dodging is easy, even with multiple enemies.🤷🤷
I only use Zhongli with Yoimiya and Ganyu, sometimes Xiao but I've been using c6 Thoma for that too.
For Wanderer I team with Layla so i can get crit boost.
My Zhongli has crit and geo dmg cup and still has 35k hp which is good enough for the most part.
someone has to be really dumb to call themselves a meta player and say that Zhongli its not meta only because he doesn't have a high damage contribution, have they never heard the importance of buffers and debuffers?
Zhongli is a Jack of all trades, master of none. Pretty much all teams will benefit from his support capabilities but he will rarely be the best/strongest option in those teams. HOWEVER, this is a Gacha game and getting new characters for all the new teams takes a good amount og luck, time and patience (and can be very expensive if you don't have either of those things) so having a strong 5 star character that can cover that shield support and resistance shred role in EVERY team is pretty damn useful and worthwhile in a game like Genshin. He's also incredibly easy to build and doesn't need godroll artifacts to function. Add this on top of all the things you mentioned in the video and he becomes a 5/5 to me.
Im grateful to have my guaranteed ready just for him! Even if he wasn't meta, he still one of my favorite characters in game, so I really need him
Zhongli is obsolete
I have C4 zhonglee and R3 homa. this bad boys can deal more than 250k per meteorite. I love big dong zhong.
I thought the Netflix part was about to turn into a VPN sponsor but it ended up being like a sneeze that never came
I am sorry but you are quite awfull at logic… On one hand you make these videos about meta, then turn around and say that the abyss is only 10% of the game …but you still rank him on meta and on top of that you pretend that the people who care about meta are crazy, despite the fact that this discussion is specifically about meta. This means that you got into this discussion and then ask why the discussion is the way it is despite knowing full well what you were getting into….
I am soo tired of relativists like you who want to have their cake and eat it too.
Also, Zhongli IS good and he does not need your shit sophestry for him to be good. He is good because he is the only character who offers a shield as sturdy as his and as such, because of supply and demand, he IS a good character.
Hey pseychie just got a question are you the same as the dude that makes dead cells content?
When it comes to floor 12, who need a zhongli when you have a C6 Eula, R5 broken pine, C4 Xinyan, C3 Bennet, and C0 Raiden??????? I’m very confused. Well, not 12-1-2, but for 12-2-2 and 12-3-2, east dub
Im sorry but if you don't care about the abyss then that means you don't care about the meta, in the overworld you can even use xinyan and you will be fine.. for someone who wants to do the abyss in the most optimal way possible your advice is horrible.
If you want to pull him then pull no one is stopping you but don't expect people to lie to you saying zhongli is the best and he is op because he is not.
I like his character but i dont feel like i need to pull him, even after pulling ganyu, yoi, lyney and klee. Kirara, thoma, tankfei and layla already make me comfy so i feel like he wouldnt be a good pull.
Actual true reason they say to not summon for the geo archon…
"Osmanthu-
i bet those same meta players, will not play souls like game complaining its too hard lol
You are here complaining about meta ppayers while simultaniously advocating for skiping dialouge… let me give you a tip: if you don't want to play the game. You can just not play the fing game…