Most limited 5 stars suffer from the same issues. They all want c6 four star supports or other 5 stars. Its a self defeating argument. It suffers from the same problems that u are trying to argue against. If you were to actually want to make the comparison properly you would have to:
1. Look at the total limited 5 star and 4 star cons investment of any given team to make objective comparisons 2. Compare the value that said characters can bring to an account (furina, yelan, kazuha, nahida generally bring more value than 5 star dps chars but obv depends on each person)
U will quickly realise a team like double hydro hyperbloom has some of the highest value 5 stars and 4 star cons while also having a low amount required. Nahida and yelan are two generic limited 5 stars than a lot of 5 star dpses u mentioned in ur vid require anyways. kuki can be c0 and xq can be c2 since he benefits much less from his c3-6 in this team compared to others and both see play in many teams are worth investing into.
A premium cyno or ayaka team in comparison would want ayaka shenhe kokomi kazuha or cyno furina baizhu raiden… all 5 stars. And most of these 5 stars are not generic hence commonly seen as lower in value. And if u dont go for the premium version u end up using low con xingqui or other bad 4 star chars like dendro mc or lisa for cyno and diona or barbara with sucrose for ayaka. I have just had a discussion with a new player who wants to build a team for navia and he doesnt have zhongli or bennet and his xiangling is c1. He opted for navia geo mc fishl c2 xingqui c2. There u go he isnt playing national like u wanted but what is he playing now lol. Not any better than the copium low con 4 star teams u made fun of.
From ur pic at 4:36 haitham wants nahida anyways and a variety of c6 fishl c2 kuki kirara or baizhu c6 xingqui or yelan. U can build a proper haitham team u can build other proper dendo teams. Navia wants bennet and zhongli or at least albedo or c6 ning. Ideally also furina or c4 xiangling wrio ideally wants two of furina shenhe kazuha Lyney also wants bennet c4 xiangling zhongli dehya kazuha Hutao I dont recommend to new players but she also wants c6 xq yelan furina kazuha zhongli bennet
I dont see any good argument how trying to build those teams is necessarily gonna get u 36 star any sooner or any more efficient than nahida c2 kuki c2 xq yelan for a new player. Yelan and nahida are great for overworld as well and fav bow is free. U can farm deepwood for nahida and kuki and throw all trash into emblem strongbox and u have a very solid team with less 4 star and 5 star pulls than most if not all u mentioned and very generic ones at that.
U need to have a structured plan of what teams u want to pull and double hydro hyperbloom is such an easy recommend as it doesnt require many units and u can horizontally diversify into many other teams without wasting any pulls on potentially benched chars. Im not a fan of national for new players tho as without snapshotting, double swirling, quad vaping xq skill or nuking childes ult etc. it just sucks. Investment into those units is unlikely to be a waste tho.
If u like a specific char or team than identify the most efficient path towards it given the banner schedule, your primogem income and other factors and work efficiently towards that goal. "Just pull the gacha and ull get stronger 4 head cause most 5 stars are better than 4 stars" is bad advice in this dps chars dominated roster cause thats how many people end up with 8 dps 1 support on their account and still struggle with abyss.
As a person who has played since launch but hasn't 36 starred abyss ever, I don't think it's possible to fix me. I have c1 HuTao with Homa, and Yelan with her signature weapon, who I pair with Zhongli and Xingqiu/Kazuha or Furina and Jean cause people say they're good but I swear that team just can't kill anything past floor 11. Any tips for making the team do better? Besides getting better rolls on substats ofc.
Actual execution is something that goes unsaid a lot and I think it's way more important than a lot of people realize. The max DPS check in floor 12 is like 30k, which is high for a new player but the majority of teams can reach it with medium investment. On the other hand no amount of investment (save for whaling) will save you if you don't know how to group enemies, if you don't know how to build a team to pass elemental checks, or if Coppelia one shots you
Wow such a unique unkown solution for a gacha,pull for 5 stars to win the game😂. Lol that's a fact dude, however there is one more fact to it gacha isn't much generous specially genshin. And to actually win the game early you either need to be damn lucky or need the power of the card which resides in wallet. And one of the biggest factor for any account which is neglected "Time".Primos, character banners,artifacts,even talent upgrades and weekly bosses takes time.
This abyss is all about breking shields. Without specific elements . U re not gonna clear it with 36. For players dont waste ur time doing this over and over again just to get 36 stars. Its not eve worth it. Get 33 and u are good.
Wow, someone who actually understands the reality of playing genshin. The absurd bullshit people say and do, and things like "low-investment teams" or "resin efficiency" I absolutely do not believe. There are ways to literally make garbage work, and not everyone will be on equal footing when it comes to Characters they have access with, the current Banners available during their playtime, and it does not help when the entire Genshin community gives this new player who doesn't know jack about the game and is trying to learn more, advices and comments like "BRO JUST PULL NEUVILLETTE" without understanding why. I don't even care about why people play genshin whether or not they care about characters or clearing content, and it doesn't fucking matter. Ask only what the player wants to understand and give only relevant information regarding the situation he is dealing with whatever content that needs clearing. Not bullshit like "bro just do this".
Ayato hyperbloom is the easiest, comfiest turn-your-brain-off team I have, and it is one of the teams that made me able to 36* the abyss pretty consistently, but yeah, I don't think it would work nearly as well without Nahida
Feel like this video is just all over the place structure wise. Don’t built national / hyperbloom but… if you have the units then build national / hyperbloom… These are some of the lukest warm takes I’ve ever heard. There’s a lot of general knowledge and it feels like you’re lecturing old players rather than trying to talk to new players.
I think best tip for clearing abyss is knowing how damage works. It took me probably a little over a year to 36* abyss because I just built who I liked and who I liked was keqing pre-dendro (which I pulled on her banner, don’t judge). I knew at the time there was damage disparity between units but I was also playing like keqing bennet xingqui mona on one side and phys rosaria diona fischl and beidou on the other side. The reactions I was doing and the teams I was playing do not scale well and most of the content relied on super invested hypercarrys or capitalizing on knowing how reactions worked and which ones were the most powerful. The first time I 36’d abyss was having a raiden national team and the other team was a kazuha + keqing team. Prior to pulling my raiden my xiangling was like level 50 and my xingqui was 60/70. After watching guides on how the teams worked I got both to 70/70 and could finally make the abyss clearing time. Im a pretty firm believer in getting the bang for your buck so I was happy with just clearing it and I knew if I was like a few seconds short I could always level the same character to maybe 70/80 and just get higher talents to fix the lack of dps (which down the line I eventually had to do). I didn’t like playing the team, but it was my only option to reach the dps check against boss chambers which had the highest hp check at the time.
With dendro release and reactions being transformative instead of multiplicative, it makes it easier to even at c0 and low talent level investment to get a character up and running doing good damage. I think both hyperbloom / national teams have a good type coverage which makes them recommendable to all players. Maybe the team you like playing isn’t using the core components of either hyperbloom or national, then it’s a solid choice for a second team.
Now I currently don’t play either of these teams. With 3 years of playing I have quicken teams, hypercarry teams, nilou team and as of late weird electro-charged teams with furina and kazuha absolutely shredding everything in my path. But new players starting out I still recommend hyperbloom, national, and fridge is actually up there if you have Layla or rosaria. Even if you’re not playing national, I’d build bennet and xiangling because cryo in abyss is rough to deal with plus most attack scaling hypercarry units benefit from the bennet XL combo b/c of resonance and aoe coverage.
It is sad the old players rush new players to make teams for Spiral Abyss while I remember I only went to Spiral Abyss after I got Eula on 1.5 I think even then was still hard. New players should not be stressed about it and just enjoy it is really a long haul game. As yllong as you are playing and wishing rosters will come and so is artifacts. In 3 years you will have an excess of everything and redundant characters.
First, you need a team, not just a character. Having Shenhe is pretty worthless without a cryo DPS for them to back up. And if you did have one of those and could get Furina or Kaz instead of Shenhe, from a power perspective, that's definitely the right call.
Second, teams vary in what they can handle well. Eula, for example, is often negatively impacted by what the Abyss tosses at her. This is part of why Quickbloom and National come so recommended. They are not only solid teams with good performance for the investment, but they are omni-tool teams. They can handle pretty much everything the Abyss tosses at them. At least until the Wenut or Wolf Lord shows up 😉 So if the goal is to clear the Abyss, just pick whatever is also not a good idea. You'd need to walk a middle road… don't hold off for the best when good enough gets the job done, but do try to aim for a more generalist good enough.
That said, the difference between 36 starring the Abyss and 33 starring for an entire year is about equal to one Welkin's, which isn't even enough primos for 2 10 pulls. So, personally, I don't really see the point in rushing toward 36 starring the Abyss anyway. A few more months before you get there, not a big deal if the cost of rushing it is you having less fun.
As far as farming Gilded goes, going to somewhat disagree. It isn't hard to farm a decent Gilded set for Kuki. You just need two EM pieces, and the third can be the off set piece, plus a decent flower and feather. Sure, you'd like some HP% as a substat, but whatever. You aren't trying to chase ER%, Crit rate, and Crit DMG substats all at once. So it is, overall, pretty easy. And if that isn't easy enough, 2 piece Wanderer's is 80 EM, and you'll get those just while raising up characters. So having a 2 piece Wanderers, 2 piece Gilded set is also great, potentially reducing your need to farm even more. And with characters like Yaoyao and Kirara wanting different stats than DMC and Collei, it isn't like it'll be wasted anyway. What you do not want to do is farm Flowers of Paradise Lost for Kuki. That's a waste of resin.
Oh, and no, no, no. The Golden Troupe domain is not necessarily where you want to be. You're making the exact same mistake here that you're trying to refute about how to clear the Abyss… the assumption as to what people have access to, and what they should build toward. Troupe is a bit niche. Meanwhile, the Hunter set requires certain characters. If you don't have Furina, well, there goes its value for most characters. If you do have Furina, she's only one side of the Abyss. So what are you putting on the one on the other side? It also doesn't trigger for off-field characters, so how long are you going to keep your off-fielders on field for? If you don't have Neuv, Lyney, or Wrizzy, then, not a good set. What you should farm is the most resin efficient to increase the performance of the teams and characters you use. For many players, Emblem domain will still be the best, since so many characters want it, and they'll get 2 piece atk% out of it as well. And nope, you can't just strongbox for Emblem, when you're also trying to strongbox for VV, Noblesse, and various other sets. Especially since those sets come from domains that have bad second sets in them.
I guess what I could recommend for someone who wants to clear Floor 12 is to simply take their time. Because it really does take a long ahh time to get enough wishes and resin to build a strong enough roster for it. Personally it took me about a year – and at least two dozens of characters built at a baseline – to get 36-stars as a player who only spent a small amount of cash in this game.
BTW I'm not sure players really need to build that many characters to clear. But I think it's natural to expect most players to just experiment with a variety of characters first to see which ones work for them and which one doesn't. I find that it's better for people to just pull for anyone that piques their interest, because they'll figure out eventually which teammates work best for their favorite characters along the way.
There's also other things people need to keep in mind too, like building enough team comps that can cover all bases (single target, AOE, various shieldbreaking scenarios), learning how to think outside the box when it comes to teambuilding (some teams that people don't think are meta might actually be stronger and more versatile than they think), and knowing how to exploit abyss and enemy mechanics. Like everything else though it takes some time to figure all these out
Yes and no, maybe if TC content creators didn’t mince their words and constantly hold back on recommending strong units, more people would have pulled for Neuv. Everyone avoided saying how strong he was until after his banner was gone and kept shilling support units when Neuv is far stronger for many accounts, rip.
I really liked this video, you improved a lot on your way to articulate ideas, and i want to add one thing that isn't considered enough when recomending to new accounts,
POWER CREEP!!
lots of tips and teams like national don't yield the same results like they did to us, the recent abyss is adapted for fontaine units, wich hit a lot, just look at navia, furina or newvilete, they all are absurdly optimized to hit like a truck on crack, and the enemies are adapted to take the punch, so i think now is a good moment to update new accounts guides and test again from scratch what will actually help new accounts to fully abyss
Incredible, after watching this video I went and 36 starred the abyss, just like that
thank you sir im able to 36 stars abyss with 2 characters after this video
Most limited 5 stars suffer from the same issues. They all want c6 four star supports or other 5 stars. Its a self defeating argument. It suffers from the same problems that u are trying to argue against. If you were to actually want to make the comparison properly you would have to:
1. Look at the total limited 5 star and 4 star cons investment of any given team to make objective comparisons
2. Compare the value that said characters can bring to an account (furina, yelan, kazuha, nahida generally bring more value than 5 star dps chars but obv depends on each person)
U will quickly realise a team like double hydro hyperbloom has some of the highest value 5 stars and 4 star cons while also having a low amount required. Nahida and yelan are two generic limited 5 stars than a lot of 5 star dpses u mentioned in ur vid require anyways. kuki can be c0 and xq can be c2 since he benefits much less from his c3-6 in this team compared to others and both see play in many teams are worth investing into.
A premium cyno or ayaka team in comparison would want ayaka shenhe kokomi kazuha or cyno furina baizhu raiden… all 5 stars. And most of these 5 stars are not generic hence commonly seen as lower in value. And if u dont go for the premium version u end up using low con xingqui or other bad 4 star chars like dendro mc or lisa for cyno and diona or barbara with sucrose for ayaka. I have just had a discussion with a new player who wants to build a team for navia and he doesnt have zhongli or bennet and his xiangling is c1. He opted for navia geo mc fishl c2 xingqui c2. There u go he isnt playing national like u wanted but what is he playing now lol. Not any better than the copium low con 4 star teams u made fun of.
From ur pic at 4:36 haitham wants nahida anyways and a variety of c6 fishl c2 kuki kirara or baizhu c6 xingqui or yelan. U can build a proper haitham team u can build other proper dendo teams.
Navia wants bennet and zhongli or at least albedo or c6 ning. Ideally also furina or c4 xiangling
wrio ideally wants two of furina shenhe kazuha
Lyney also wants bennet c4 xiangling zhongli dehya kazuha
Hutao I dont recommend to new players but she also wants c6 xq yelan furina kazuha zhongli bennet
I dont see any good argument how trying to build those teams is necessarily gonna get u 36 star any sooner or any more efficient than nahida c2 kuki c2 xq yelan for a new player. Yelan and nahida are great for overworld as well and fav bow is free. U can farm deepwood for nahida and kuki and throw all trash into emblem strongbox and u have a very solid team with less 4 star and 5 star pulls than most if not all u mentioned and very generic ones at that.
U need to have a structured plan of what teams u want to pull and double hydro hyperbloom is such an easy recommend as it doesnt require many units and u can horizontally diversify into many other teams without wasting any pulls on potentially benched chars. Im not a fan of national for new players tho as without snapshotting, double swirling, quad vaping xq skill or nuking childes ult etc. it just sucks. Investment into those units is unlikely to be a waste tho.
If u like a specific char or team than identify the most efficient path towards it given the banner schedule, your primogem income and other factors and work efficiently towards that goal. "Just pull the gacha and ull get stronger 4 head cause most 5 stars are better than 4 stars" is bad advice in this dps chars dominated roster cause thats how many people end up with 8 dps 1 support on their account and still struggle with abyss.
best get 5 stars hydro charcters
i Iook at this and i'm Iike i have good teams my neuve does 50k per tick in the right setups why can't i cIear
Very attractive youtuber i see (he is very cute)
As a person who has played since launch but hasn't 36 starred abyss ever, I don't think it's possible to fix me. I have c1 HuTao with Homa, and Yelan with her signature weapon, who I pair with Zhongli and Xingqiu/Kazuha or Furina and Jean cause people say they're good but I swear that team just can't kill anything past floor 11. Any tips for making the team do better? Besides getting better rolls on substats ofc.
Actual execution is something that goes unsaid a lot and I think it's way more important than a lot of people realize. The max DPS check in floor 12 is like 30k, which is high for a new player but the majority of teams can reach it with medium investment. On the other hand no amount of investment (save for whaling) will save you if you don't know how to group enemies, if you don't know how to build a team to pass elemental checks, or if Coppelia one shots you
Wow such a unique unkown solution for a gacha,pull for 5 stars to win the game😂. Lol that's a fact dude, however there is one more fact to it gacha isn't much generous specially genshin. And to actually win the game early you either need to be damn lucky or need the power of the card which resides in wallet. And one of the biggest factor for any account which is neglected "Time".Primos, character banners,artifacts,even talent upgrades and weekly bosses takes time.
Honestly a new player shouldn’t be focusing on clearing floor 12 anyway, just floor 11 is enough.
That extra 150 primogems per 2 week isn’t enough to break your enjoyment of the game
A whale telling f2ps how to play is so silly to watch.
I love watching these videos as a long time f2p with 0 investment into dendro teams
This abyss is all about breking shields. Without specific elements . U re not gonna clear it with 36. For players dont waste ur time doing this over and over again just to get 36 stars. Its not eve worth it. Get 33 and u are good.
Wow, someone who actually understands the reality of playing genshin. The absurd bullshit people say and do, and things like "low-investment teams" or "resin efficiency" I absolutely do not believe. There are ways to literally make garbage work, and not everyone will be on equal footing when it comes to Characters they have access with, the current Banners available during their playtime, and it does not help when the entire Genshin community gives this new player who doesn't know jack about the game and is trying to learn more, advices and comments like "BRO JUST PULL NEUVILLETTE" without understanding why.
I don't even care about why people play genshin whether or not they care about characters or clearing content, and it doesn't fucking matter. Ask only what the player wants to understand and give only relevant information regarding the situation he is dealing with whatever content that needs clearing. Not bullshit like "bro just do this".
Ayato hyperbloom is the easiest, comfiest turn-your-brain-off team I have, and it is one of the teams that made me able to 36* the abyss pretty consistently, but yeah, I don't think it would work nearly as well without Nahida
Feel like this video is just all over the place structure wise. Don’t built national / hyperbloom but… if you have the units then build national / hyperbloom… These are some of the lukest warm takes I’ve ever heard. There’s a lot of general knowledge and it feels like you’re lecturing old players rather than trying to talk to new players.
I think best tip for clearing abyss is knowing how damage works. It took me probably a little over a year to 36* abyss because I just built who I liked and who I liked was keqing pre-dendro (which I pulled on her banner, don’t judge). I knew at the time there was damage disparity between units but I was also playing like keqing bennet xingqui mona on one side and phys rosaria diona fischl and beidou on the other side. The reactions I was doing and the teams I was playing do not scale well and most of the content relied on super invested hypercarrys or capitalizing on knowing how reactions worked and which ones were the most powerful. The first time I 36’d abyss was having a raiden national team and the other team was a kazuha + keqing team. Prior to pulling my raiden my xiangling was like level 50 and my xingqui was 60/70. After watching guides on how the teams worked I got both to 70/70 and could finally make the abyss clearing time. Im a pretty firm believer in getting the bang for your buck so I was happy with just clearing it and I knew if I was like a few seconds short I could always level the same character to maybe 70/80 and just get higher talents to fix the lack of dps (which down the line I eventually had to do). I didn’t like playing the team, but it was my only option to reach the dps check against boss chambers which had the highest hp check at the time.
With dendro release and reactions being transformative instead of multiplicative, it makes it easier to even at c0 and low talent level investment to get a character up and running doing good damage. I think both hyperbloom / national teams have a good type coverage which makes them recommendable to all players. Maybe the team you like playing isn’t using the core components of either hyperbloom or national, then it’s a solid choice for a second team.
Now I currently don’t play either of these teams. With 3 years of playing I have quicken teams, hypercarry teams, nilou team and as of late weird electro-charged teams with furina and kazuha absolutely shredding everything in my path. But new players starting out I still recommend hyperbloom, national, and fridge is actually up there if you have Layla or rosaria. Even if you’re not playing national, I’d build bennet and xiangling because cryo in abyss is rough to deal with plus most attack scaling hypercarry units benefit from the bennet XL combo b/c of resonance and aoe coverage.
It is sad the old players rush new players to make teams for Spiral Abyss while I remember I only went to Spiral Abyss after I got Eula on 1.5 I think even then was still hard. New players should not be stressed about it and just enjoy it is really a long haul game. As yllong as you are playing and wishing rosters will come and so is artifacts. In 3 years you will have an excess of everything and redundant characters.
I think there a few things to consider.
First, you need a team, not just a character. Having Shenhe is pretty worthless without a cryo DPS for them to back up. And if you did have one of those and could get Furina or Kaz instead of Shenhe, from a power perspective, that's definitely the right call.
Second, teams vary in what they can handle well. Eula, for example, is often negatively impacted by what the Abyss tosses at her. This is part of why Quickbloom and National come so recommended. They are not only solid teams with good performance for the investment, but they are omni-tool teams. They can handle pretty much everything the Abyss tosses at them. At least until the Wenut or Wolf Lord shows up 😉 So if the goal is to clear the Abyss, just pick whatever is also not a good idea. You'd need to walk a middle road… don't hold off for the best when good enough gets the job done, but do try to aim for a more generalist good enough.
That said, the difference between 36 starring the Abyss and 33 starring for an entire year is about equal to one Welkin's, which isn't even enough primos for 2 10 pulls. So, personally, I don't really see the point in rushing toward 36 starring the Abyss anyway. A few more months before you get there, not a big deal if the cost of rushing it is you having less fun.
As far as farming Gilded goes, going to somewhat disagree. It isn't hard to farm a decent Gilded set for Kuki. You just need two EM pieces, and the third can be the off set piece, plus a decent flower and feather. Sure, you'd like some HP% as a substat, but whatever. You aren't trying to chase ER%, Crit rate, and Crit DMG substats all at once. So it is, overall, pretty easy. And if that isn't easy enough, 2 piece Wanderer's is 80 EM, and you'll get those just while raising up characters. So having a 2 piece Wanderers, 2 piece Gilded set is also great, potentially reducing your need to farm even more. And with characters like Yaoyao and Kirara wanting different stats than DMC and Collei, it isn't like it'll be wasted anyway. What you do not want to do is farm Flowers of Paradise Lost for Kuki. That's a waste of resin.
Oh, and no, no, no. The Golden Troupe domain is not necessarily where you want to be. You're making the exact same mistake here that you're trying to refute about how to clear the Abyss… the assumption as to what people have access to, and what they should build toward. Troupe is a bit niche. Meanwhile, the Hunter set requires certain characters. If you don't have Furina, well, there goes its value for most characters. If you do have Furina, she's only one side of the Abyss. So what are you putting on the one on the other side? It also doesn't trigger for off-field characters, so how long are you going to keep your off-fielders on field for? If you don't have Neuv, Lyney, or Wrizzy, then, not a good set. What you should farm is the most resin efficient to increase the performance of the teams and characters you use. For many players, Emblem domain will still be the best, since so many characters want it, and they'll get 2 piece atk% out of it as well. And nope, you can't just strongbox for Emblem, when you're also trying to strongbox for VV, Noblesse, and various other sets. Especially since those sets come from domains that have bad second sets in them.
I guess what I could recommend for someone who wants to clear Floor 12 is to simply take their time. Because it really does take a long ahh time to get enough wishes and resin to build a strong enough roster for it. Personally it took me about a year – and at least two dozens of characters built at a baseline – to get 36-stars as a player who only spent a small amount of cash in this game.
BTW I'm not sure players really need to build that many characters to clear. But I think it's natural to expect most players to just experiment with a variety of characters first to see which ones work for them and which one doesn't. I find that it's better for people to just pull for anyone that piques their interest, because they'll figure out eventually which teammates work best for their favorite characters along the way.
There's also other things people need to keep in mind too, like building enough team comps that can cover all bases (single target, AOE, various shieldbreaking scenarios), learning how to think outside the box when it comes to teambuilding (some teams that people don't think are meta might actually be stronger and more versatile than they think), and knowing how to exploit abyss and enemy mechanics. Like everything else though it takes some time to figure all these out
Love your no bs takes mate, cheers!
Can you comment on Ayato HB tho?
So just become a whale
Yes and no, maybe if TC content creators didn’t mince their words and constantly hold back on recommending strong units, more people would have pulled for Neuv. Everyone avoided saying how strong he was until after his banner was gone and kept shilling support units when Neuv is far stronger for many accounts, rip.
I really liked this video, you improved a lot on your way to articulate ideas, and i want to add one thing that isn't considered enough when recomending to new accounts,
POWER CREEP!!
lots of tips and teams like national don't yield the same results like they did to us, the recent abyss is adapted for fontaine units, wich hit a lot, just look at navia, furina or newvilete, they all are absurdly optimized to hit like a truck on crack, and the enemies are adapted to take the punch, so i think now is a good moment to update new accounts guides and test again from scratch what will actually help new accounts to fully abyss
Tottaly Agree