For today’s video I want to address a few things about Spiral Abyss, namely how the way Genshin is making each subsequent version harder, while offering us no easy means to match that difficulty spike or a better reward for our troubles.
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I completed it once. I dont gain primos from floor 12 however. So once i fullstar foor 11 i get off.
Ima f2p frm playing frm day 1
(Goddamn I didn't know I was gonna type an entire essay but here we are lmao. Be warned.)
Not sure how many ppl share my sentiment, but spiral abyss is the content I look forward to every reset, especially when the enemies change. It lets me gauge how well my roster of characters fare in relation to the progressive difficulty, and so far, I've been able to keep up my streak of 36* clears ever since I got it going.
Tbh if you're not a meta player or have any kind of personal goal for the spiral abyss, it's very unlikely that you'll ever 36* the abyss as time goes on and it keeps getting harder, unless you're a whale or have extremely good luck.
I have such an obsession with the abyss mostly due to having participated in the very first iteration of it since launch. Back then, it was so challenging since most of us players had to work with very limited resources, and I often had discussions with my friends regarding team comps and possibly strategies to get the most rewards. It is this brainstorming process that I feel keeps the abyss fresh, and I continue to do it till this day since I still have to keep up with the increasing difficulty.
My most memorable experience of this game also involves the abyss, and I still remember what happened till this day.
It was 30 November 2020. Bennett was in the starglitter shop, and I didn't have a single copy of him since he was never on a featured banner (iirc till the 1st Albedo banner). I was really desperate to get him since the community was getting more and more informed about characters and how good they were. Unfortunately, the starglitter shop was expiring on that day, and I was 2 starglitter away from being able to buy him.
Coincidentally enough, I was only 1 pull away from my next guaranteed 4* on the limited banner which would net me the 2 starglitter, but at the same time, I was also lacking 20 primogems to be able to make a wish. Keep in mind, up to this point, I had been doing my best to squeeze whatever primogems I could out of the open world chests and achievements, and I was still 20 primogems short.
I'm not exaggerating when I say this, but the only way I was gonna get that 20 primogems, was if I had cleared floor 12 of the abyss and get the 20 primogems from the achievement. I remember thinking to myself, "I've tried to clear it before but to no success, can I really do it this time?", but then again, I was really unwilling to call it quits when I was so bloody close. So I went back in there and gave it my all.
I don't remember how long it took, but what I do know is it wasn't easy. I was kinda lucky to have had Klee, Venti, Jean and Kaeya on my 1st team (and yes, I was and still am a F2P), but my 2nd team was pretty scuffed with Keqing, Xingqiu, Xiangling and Diona. My artifacts and weapons also didn't really help since they were kinda trash. If you guys have experienced it first hand, you would know how tanky the fatui were on 12-3. And that's not mentioning the amount of resets I had to do when my supports with <10k hp got 1 shot by the motherfucking ice cages.
But I did it. I finally did it. I cleared floor 12-3 of the spiral abyss with only 10s left on the clock for a 0 star clear. Man, you guys probably don't know how exhilarating that felt. I claimed the 20 primogems from the achievement, and thank god the final wish I made didn't net me a Childe (I got the Flute instead), cuz he would've ruined my hopes of buying Bennett from the shop (since getting him at c0 wouldn't net me any starglitter).
So yea, this is probably how my Genshin life started to become so intertwined with the spiral abyss. Hope you guys enjoyed this journey down memory lane.
I started during the first few weeks of the game and never cleared room 12 at all. not even 1 star. And I have some rly good units like Childe or Kazuha. And my damage is also high. I can do 100k damage easily. So it's upsetting that Abyss only gets harder. It feels like my goal is fading away in the same speed as I am getting closer to it
For me abyss after abyss lectors and heralds get out from f12 so in 2.0 it's to easy in current abyss i have about minut more time to go on clock (bp and welkin only). But reward from abyss are very small but its mihoyo they never give us good rewards.
There are definitely a lot of things I agree with in this video. Abyss got much harder in the last few patches, and it's definitely starting to outscale the average progression of players, which is a very bad thing. Though, as of now, I still strongly believe that anyone who has good understanding of the game and has been using their resin efficiently can 36 star the current abyss without needing a lot of 5 star characters or weapons. I myself have an F2P account that can pretty comfortably 36 star without any limited 5* weapons and very few 5* characters. I have to admit that the current pace at which the abyss is scaling has me quite worried that this won't stay true forever, but so far it's been true since the Ayaka banner for me.
I would also like to point out that all variations of the national team have been very meta since probably a year now, and I find your focus on the Raiden variation very odd since it's not even the strongest one. Saying that it's needed to 36 star abyss is also very much of a stretch as I have been doing just fine without it. I have actually been refusing to build Xiangling on my second account because I don't want to end up using yet another national team like I do on my main account since that would pretty much defeat the purpose of having two accounts. To be honest, even if national team was needed, I hardly see that as a bad thing since you can run it with only 4 star characters and still get insanely good results. If anything, the fact that 4 star characters can make such an amazing team should be praised. It just goes to show that there is no one 5 star character who is absolutely necessary and that you can still pull for the ones you like, as long as you are smart about synergies and resin efficiency.
10:47 The game makes it also very hard to progress any character much thanks to the abysmal artifact rng
I am f2p and I always get atleast 33 stars in spiral abyss and in this iteration of abyss I got 35 stars with old characters.
If you are playing this game for long time then you will have some creaked artifacts you just have to be patient, you don't necessarily need new 5* characters.
And yeah tier list matters in spiral abyss.
Just make abyss a place to farm points and trade those points in for resin, books, talent mats, weapon mats and primogems, those things are the problem with a lot of the game anyway with resin being the worst one
abyss may be a little bit harder than before, but mostly its not the abyss fault as whole. its the CURRENT ITERATION of the abyss who is not friendly with ur characters or comps. take for example the current one, is not geo friendly at all since the shields are not good vs corrosion, but eventually wolfs and corrosion will go away and ur comp will be good again. u can destroy abyss with 4 star weps and characters, just need to invest time in artifact farming and research of game mechanics, if u r a really casual player and dont want to do that, thats ok its ur time and abyss is not mandatory. abyss is a place to test our limits and see big pp numbers, i for one enjoy they r constantly meta changing the abyss cuz it forces me to raise or use other characters that otherwise i would never use.
i started genshin a couple months ago, and dont get me wrong, i do indeed spend money, but im still yet to beat it at AR 52
it would be nice to have other things to help motivate than just primo, at least at the lowest floor to help trigger it.
Agreed. I'm a medium spender and I only do abyss for the challenge and to judge my characters potentials. I've had to retire my C6 xiao who I love because he doesn't do enough damage anymore with these 1.3 million hp enemies becoming commonplace. I can 36 star the abyss now but the first mechanical array abyss tilted me off the face of the planet because I couldn't do it at the time. Mihoyo needs to do a huge overhaul of all the rewards they give out. The coin shop events are fine as they are but could use some extra sparkle to make them more appealing, the battlepass needs a restructure entirely from the ground up, and they need to MAKE THE DAILY LOGIN REWARDS BETTER AND IN GAME INSTEAD OF THROUGH AN OUTSIDE WEBSITE. Not to mention it's probably going to be time for them to start giving out a different material when you pull a 4 star you've already C6'd or some other system. A lot of us have most of the 4 stars at C6 and banners are becoming increasingly boring since I have all these 4 stars completed already. Lots of good points in the video though.
I think you hit the nail on the head.
One thing I would love to see more of is more gimmicks in floor 10/11. Monolith defense plays completely different from the other floors, as did pre-hound corossion, and the HP pools there are still managible.
Meanwhile even with hypercarries, floor 12 has felt like an awful chore for all of 2.X
I mostly disagree on everything besides awards. So let's put what I agree with first so people read my full comment lol.
Rewards, definite agree. Keep the current rewards as a one time thing, but every time you complete each of the rotating floors have a chance of dropping a good reward such as constellations for a character your pick, 5 start craftable weapon materials maybe like 5 star billets? stuff like that would be awesome. other gachas do that, why not genshin? Let you claim rewards like once a day like this, or every time, but lower drop rates, maybe let the player choose between the two depending on what they want to invest into it time-wise. Rotate between weapon banner specific weapons you can save up for each abyss reset, something like that. make it not fully farmable for everything so there's still incentive for pulling on eapons if you're so inclined, but let f2p enjoy the benefits while still having some whales paying for the game.
National team isn't required at all, I use a broken form across the two teams, Xiangliang for melt with my mainly cryo side, and XQ with my pyro side. I haven't even used Benny on either team because Diano on cryo team and Hu Tao on pyro team. Making it a gear check is perfectly reasonable and works better for the type of game GI is. Having good artifacts being the goal promotes the arguably bad way of farming artifact domains, which is at least a kind of cohesive game play loop over all. I think the resin system should be reworked a bit and have more things permanently grindable but that's not the point of this video so i'll leave that be.
Me, who has built like 10 supports and only one DPS:
Haha I'm in danger
A Whale spends up to a 1000$ for c6 -Any 5 star-, if MHY gave constellations for free, those people would be angry, and rightfully so, and a F2P myself, I gave up on c1 Hu Tao and c2 Raiden a WHILE ago.
I like your thoughts on the Abyss, and pretty much feel the same. I'd like to share my experience as well. Sometimes you log in, forget how much gems it actually gives for the stars and it makes you feel so unsatisfied. I know that clearing it affects a lot of players' nerves and mood very badly, including myself and my friends, because of how agitated they feel of being rushed to clear everything and feeling not [built] enough, getting more frustrated every time. True, that Rifthounds are so annoying not because of the corrosion effect, but because they move around for the sake of moving around, and clearly became very hated, like the ghosts in Watatsumi, and new mobs in Enkanomiya that ignore shields without any reasoning in the game itself. I also know, that getting a decent weapon to boost your damage is really hard, the most OK 4* ones are from battle pass, which you again, have to pay to pick from, no matter if you log in every day in a month. I sadly have no idea how to avoid this situation, especially considering a trend of more content for endgame/whale players (even a lot of events), which are simply too hard in both mechanics and enemies to deal with. After not completing those several times, some players will be motivated, others might just quit the game out of pure feeling of dissatisfaction and monotony in farming the same resources for nothing. As for me – I play the game almost a year now, and I still can't complete the abyss with all the stars, although I'm quite lucky with the 5* I have (Zhongli, Kazuha, Raiden). I noticed recently, that I often feel pressured on banners, having to consider not only which character I will truly enjoy playing, but also which character is more "efficient" in that sense.
My biggest concern at this moment is that I mostly play the game for the lore and the characters, so I'm afraid that not only by the time the full story and regions get released I'll lose interest in the game, but also that the company will continue prioritizing sales over content and story to the extent that is becomes less and less well crafted and thought through, and the Abyss' last floors are already a red flag. Being itself connected tightly to Khaenri'ah and Celestia, right now it's still a simple round arena with increasing amount of new bosses and HP on them, which is completely not welcoming and really sad.
Me still waiting for a coop randomized dungeon just for the Sake of dungeon crawling:
Interesting
And then there's me, who still refuses to touch anything above 8-3 despite having well built characters
This will sound a bit elitist, however, a well decked F2P player can get 33 stars in the abyss. Not everyone can or should be able to get 36 stars. Medium to high spenders need content too. At a cost 100 primos a month (less than one 10 pull in a year), I am not seeing this as remotely an issue.
Having said that, I would prefer that MiHoyo add more floors. 13-15, with no primos attached to them. Then return back floors 9-12 to 1.0-1.6 era difficulty.
The only reason i still want to 36 star the Abyss is to get the namecard. Though the other challenges still seem really difficult to pull off. The furthest i got to date is 29 stars and i doubt i'll be getting the rest anytime soon. It's fun because there is more fighting to do but i only recently fully cleared floor 11 and there is still a lot of investment to most of my characters left to do, so much so that i'm starting to wonder if it's even worth all the effort.
I must say, I have never given a single fuk about abyss, I watch these vids bc I like hearing what people think about content I don't use and have and idea what's up with the game in general. For players that enjoy abyss, like you, I hope they can improve the content for you all, on the other hand I roll my eyes every single time an abyss players say abyss only end game content of the game. Yeahhh, no. You are defining end game for genshin in a very specific way.
My friends and I don't give a fck about that content, it could be deleted and it won't affect us, we are here for the events, the hang outs, the pot, the exploration, the story and the lore, even the fact if building a new chara is end game content too. I say this bc It's kind of sad, for people that love this game and have the time to explore everything and do every hung out and side quest they are left with two options to enjoy, events and abyss, and YouTube gives me the impression that most people only care about abyss, and don't enjoy events that much.
I have done all the story, my friends too, but we have lots to do bc we simply don't have enough time to explore everything, bc our time is limited all the things more "hardcore players" already consumed become our end game content, or in other words, what end game content means for us it's different (aka, everything that it's not main quest). And that it's a definition that applies for a lot of people too, it's not hard to find other people in the same situation on the internet.
This game seems way more rewarding for "casual players", people that can play every single day, but don't have time to consume everything, and it's super sad bc at the end of the game I feel like f2p that are left only with abyss are the specific group of people that got the short en of stick for this game. Like what are you gonna do? If you don't have money, you don't. I wish something like the shiki taisho event became something more permanent, I perceived a good reception for that event in more hardcore channels. Maybe it will be, in Honkai they added an event of the same kind as permanent content months after it was removed for the first time. I dunno, I just wish mhy can find a viable solution for players of all platforms.
I said it when the game came out, that Spiral Abyss was going to eat the playerbase and destroy the game, and people just called me casual and noob for saying that the only endgame content that existed should just disappear.
I can't even say who gets the last laugh now? because after the people start seeing the problems now (you can't catch up with the content and the rewards are a joke) because the topic is so sad and pathetic, I can't even laugh.
The Stellar Fortuna reward would be amazing. Imagine if it was every 72 accumulated stars (so you don't have to 36 2 consecutive abyss' but just need to TOTAL 72 stars) that you would receive one. Even the more casual audience that doesn't have end game grinded accounts could still have something to look forward too.
I hate the we cnt upgrade abyss rewards because it's apparently a slap to the face to f2p excuse
The problem with genshin spiral abyss is the "DPS check." Periodt. They should make end game content more like the hypostasis event where the hypostasis had cooler, stronger, different abilities. This made players actually change the way they play and think of mechanics instead of just a Vaporize/Melt comp lol. Similarly with the first Dragonspine event where you had to use the red crystals to break the barrier or hide behind the barrier from the snowstorm attack. Mechanical changes that makes you think about the game is what makes it fun. During that event, Amber was actually viable because she was the only character who can set up before starting the event.
I'm a f2p and I do still fully think this game is relatively easy so I have been able to consistently 36 stars the past 4 abyss cycles and then was on and off 36 averaging 33-35 stars if I could not do a perfect run. While I do not think abyss is particularly difficult I do think the game can be very in-depth and if you do not care to manage a bunch of the systems or mechanics presented, it can lead you to fall behind. But I fully agree with the issues presented. The gameplay, while I find it enjoyable is still just a dps check. My 36s stars were made possible due to my tight resource management, me playing the game since week 1 (obviously with about a 2-week break at least), and the fact that I have been pulling some of the right characters at the right times. I pulled Raiden and I have been using raiden national to deal with the first half and then running a monogeo comp carried by Ningguang in the second half. I personally have not noticed a major difference in the difficulty of spiral abyss as each patch was released after 2.0 but I fully realize that it has become harder and for no extra rewards. For a hardcore player or for a week 1/month 1 f2p or for a dolphin or a whale, this game is pretty easy. But for newcomers it sucks and for casuals, it is a nightmare (although casuals don't really need to worry about abyss). I definitely think they should reduce the difficulty of 12 and then add a new floor (floor 13) with the current level of difficulty and buff the rewards per floors 9-13. Make it an additional 50 primos per 3 star per floor or something of that matter. The free constellation idea was also great.
I really wish mihoyo would listen to these complaints and suggestions because we've literally been vocal about it for a more than half a year
I have never done the moon-path…
With Daily Quests, Events, the Battle Pass and remaining weekly stuff I already have enough to do..
Personally i don't really mind the difficulty increase of the spiral abyss, since there is no more content for the endgame anymore, rising the difficulty is kinda challenging for me to try several composition of team to beat the level. Sure for newbies the abyss is hell, and for many so called "veteran" (hate this nickname) it might be boring and forgetable after they cleared it, but i think full staring spiral abyss had it's own self achievement, it's the culmination of hard work grinding for artifacts, substats, etc and for me i treat it just as a paycheck every half a months. Floor 12 is not impossible but it requires dedication and patience to full built your character and also skill to control the character and learn the reaction they produce. You don't need to pull every featured 5 star in the abyss cycle to clear it, there's so many youtubers out there that gives guide by just using 4 star and so far their build is solid and can clear most of the level, been using almost the same team from 2.0 but still managed to pass it with a few tweak here and there, so yeah hard but not impossible
I also think the recent potions event was such a big step in the wrong direction since its mechanics completely alienates new/low ar players and those who dont build charas super strong.
I've been playing this game since launch, I grind everyday, and I have at least 10 characters who are on the verge of being maxed out…..and I've never been able to beat floor 12! The best I can hope for is reaching 11-3 or 12-1. Never get further than that.
I just can't put out anywhere near enough DPS to clear floor 12! Hell, I can't even put out enough damage to get 9 stars on floors 10 and 11! Getting 36 stars is just impossible! I just go in there, try and do as well as I can, get as many primogems out of it as I can, then leave it alone till it resets. It's just not worth the stress.
It makes me laugh when I hear people say that "everything in this game is easy", but you just ain't clearing the Abyss unless you're a whale. Thing is though, there are a lot of braggers online who will tell you that it's "easy" and they've "36 starred every Abyss since launch". In my experience, people who say that are usually either whaling, or straight up lying for 'clout' and bragging rights among the community. Unless you've got the latest 5 star characters, with constellations, and their best 5 star weapon, with god-roll artifacts and maxed out talents, it's hard as f**k!
permafreeze and national variants are still the king teams of trivializing the spyral abyss; hell just putting national on one floor lets you run whatever on the other half and still get 36 stars most of the times.
the spyral abyss will only break the players when neither of the 2 teams above stop working, artifact farming and substats optimization are the real key points and mind numbing bothers that beak players in my dolphin opinion.
I have a question. Why do people care so much about floor 12? If it's for the rewards, it's only 150 primos. I just skip floor 12 without thinking about it. The fact that something I don't even think about ruins someones genshin experience is confusing to me.
I don't think lowering the difficulity of the abyss is the right move it will leave endgame/meta/hardcore players with nothing left to do in the game as there is no other endgame content.
The Abyss is supposed to be hard, and as it stands right now, it simply isn't very hard.
Of course a new F2P player won't be able to beat it, this makes complete sense. It's end-game content. It's something one can use as a benchmark to how good ones account is. It's something to work towards. New players shouldn't be able to 36* the abyss. It's something that should take a well invested account to do.
More rewards would be fine, but a free constellation would simply be way too much. As it stands right now, the abyss is way too easy for such a reward.
Honestly, i think one thing that can be improved is the stardust/starglitter shops. we already have a coin shop. why not make that the grinding reward for abyss. add in a way to combine stardust to get starglitter. and have abyss drop stardust. that way we can either build characters more, get cons, the weapons, exp, mats, or just sacrifice it all and get more wishes. i know it's supposed to be a "premium currency" but adding another way to get it while keeping how hard the abyss is, that's a pretty good way to justify it.
Imo it kinda is… Sure we need some "hard Content" but idk give Ppl a Choice? It also feels like every Abyss is designed only around new Characters for a few Months now and at least I hate that Sht
Those dogs are the most stupid addition to the game. They are not ''challenging'', they are annoying. They move around constantly, have a weird ass hitbox and are tanky as fuck. Worst of all, mihoyo's need to sell a healer nerfed all shielders. I get that they want to nerf zhongli or whatever but this just is not fair. The whole point of a shield is that u can tank damage without losing hp. They should've relased kokomi's clam set with her or make her an attack buffer OR ANYTHING. Their desire to sell one shitty character made the whole game misserable. And the funniest part is that kokomi would've made a shit ton of money if they let her crit
I hard disagree. Several times, you talk about "the community want this, the community want that". Only at the end did you correctly nuance this by stating that less than half of the playerbase bothers with the Abyss, and I'd argue it is even less than that.
Thing is, better rewards would, in fact, suck for F2P, because it would put a lot of pressure into clearing the Abyss for the ressources. It would also wreck GI design philosophy. Thing is, an endgame with meaningful rewards directly justifies powercreep has a design philosophy. As it is now, powercreep does occur, but at a slow and, I feel, more controlled rate by the devs. That's why we're getting specialized supports like Yun Jin and Shenhe, or sets that improve old/niche characters like the Clam one. In short, competitiveness, even just in a PVE setting, restrict design space.
So there is a contradiction in your argumentation. On one hand you say that Abyss power-creep sucks for beginners, and it's true. Then you say that the rewards sucks too, which is also true. But the rewards sucking mean that it is less punishing for beginners to not be able to clear. I'd be ok with more meaningful rewards IF the difficulty stays the same or is lowered.
The whole bit about rewards generating interest, I disagree. Not about the fact that rewards are a powerful motivator, of course, but about the very notion that it should be more prevalent in GI. If you're a whale and/or metagamer, clearing should be your prime motivation, because otherwise, it'll penalize everyone else. Look at it that way : yes, people strive to be the best. But when you're the best, everyone else is a looser. And don't get me wrong, there is a place for competitivness, I enjoy watching my esports like anyone else. But not in GI, not in my cosy hobby, in my casual waifu/husbando collector.
The enemies just have so much hp now idk how I’m supposed to do floor 11-3 let alone floor 12