23 thoughts on “Is Pyro Bad Now? (Genshin Impact Discussion)”
Apologies for the worse layout, I’m on vacation with family~~ please consider subscribing if you’re enjoying the videos I’m only 18 away from 1k and monetization!! 🎉 (Re-uploaded to fix audio and add forgotten footage 😊)
I didn't realize Yoimiya was the last Pyro Limited 5 star haha. It does feel like they're overloading with dendro right now and need to switch it up a bit.
Pyro being in a bad spot is rather unfortunate as we are in the need for an off field Pyro applicator that can enable Burgeon more easily without relying on steeper energy costs (Xiangling and Thoma) or needing Dendro/Anemo to make the process convoluted for Melt Ganyu. With Fontaine around the corner, I have hopes we can have someone to enable Vaporize for the Hydro units or to ease Xiangling's constant use/reliance with Bennett that makes those teams extremely stale to run for nearly 3 years straight now.
I wish / hope we'll get some Nilou-esque character for either Burning or Burgeon. That's really what I thought Dehya was going to be when she first came out.
Well, pyro is going to come back. There’s a whole pyro focused region left. And yes, pyro isn’t focused with dendro. Fontaine is coming soon and vaporize is strong. I wouldn’t count pyro out at all.
Good talking points. I have to disagree with calling Klee weak tho; she is actually very powerful when played right. I think her main issue is that people despise her playstyle and do not wish to play her, not her power level
I don't see how you can take Dehya's kit and apply that to say pyro as an element is inherently less useful. All you would have to do to make Dehya meta is change her E application rate to 1.5 second and higher uptime like Kuki, and immediately burgeon would see more play. Same with Diluc, Retriburgeon is a meme but the downtime in his application makes it kind of unwieldy. Right now we just have Thoma who needs ER/cons, or anemo/pyro combos. These are not ELEMENT flaws, merely kits that don't align as well with the current dendro meta as specific other units.
At higher investments, i think most of the teams before are still competent, but the catch is on the dolphin to f2p investments. Nilou bloom and hyperbloom teams are absolutely cracked even with beggar investment, like most of my vape/melt teams that had like 1 year of investment seems a bit inferior to my hyperbloom and nilou teams, not to mention most of these old teams rely alot on bennet and xingqiu which severly limits competent team options.
I kinda think this all boils down on EM stat being a mistake, its so deviant to other stats cuz mihoyo made it so that you have to ditch half of your character's kit. If dendro reactions still scale mostly with attack or Edmg then everything would be much more stabilized and linear, every char can still utilize 100% of their kits even on different team archetypes, and mihoyo wont have to make EM stat cracked with dendro reactions just because they have to or it will be garbage.
13:00 Three limited pyro characters is the same number we have of limited characters in electro and geo. Dendro has two, soon to become three with Baizhu. And anemo, cryo, and hydro have four. So in general the counts are pretty level, doesn't look like pyro is pulling the short end here. Also, Hu Tao has carried me through Abyss 12 just yesterday so I'm biased against any claims that pyro is weak.
Pyro both is and isn't fine. It still deals a ton of damage, and sees heavy play in the META. I do think it requires investment, especially in artifacts. But mostly, it is held back because almost every big, early-game design mistake in the game ties to Pyro. Xingqiu the vape enabler. Xiangling's burst having no ICD… just add vape. Bennett's big atk buff… pyro resonance, healing, particle generation, and, of course, vape. Vape and melt's base multipliers are too big (so every other pyro reaction looks bad,, and so if a pyro character can't vape…). All these things just stack on each other, compounding everything, and creating the pyro dominance we saw early on, and greatly limiting the design space for pyro. If you look at melt, for example, a big part of why it is barely a blip on the radar is because there is no pyro Xingqiu, nor a cryo Xiangling. So there's little design space for pyro, as things currently stand.
Meanwhile, most every other reaction is problematic. And, yes, I'd include swirl with that. Most teams don't really care about swirl. They care about VV, grouping, and DMG/EM. Or, in other words, they don't want an anemo. They want Kaz, and sometimes Sucrose, and if they can't have those, they won't use an anemo at all. When we say "anemo", we really mean just those two characters. The game really needs to introduce some non-anemo groupers to open up the design space for other anemo characters.
That said, as far as Dehya goes, her kit has a lot of issues. Vaping her burst? Pretty much irrelevant. Her burst doesn't snapshot, and she zips around during it, so not exactly the best to use with Benny's burst, and that's part of what makes Vape good. And, well, her numbers are small, especially at C0, so boosting them by 50% doesn't change much. Mostly, it just makes people think they can't use Yelan to carry her. And that's actually not quite true. You can easily use Dehya's burst, and when it runs out, then use Yelan's. And when that runs out, hey, time for Dehya's again. Works fine. Besides, her best on-field team isn't one that tries to use her as the "carry" anyway. She's actually better off being paired with Nahida and Kuki + a fourth of your choice (I prefer Fischl), working as an on-field enabler while off-fielders, ones who need minimal on-field time for max off-field damage, do the DPS work. Then she functions a lot more like Zhongli in a team, as a character that somewhat adds to the damage, but mostly just enables you to ignore what enemies do, which creates an overall very effective team because you avoid other situations that would otherwise cost you DPS.
Oddly enough, that means that bit about how people think Genshin doesn't work with the idea of "tank" role is actually kind of wrong. Thanks to the power of Nahida (and various other strong off-field DPS types) and Dehya being better at protecting herself than anything else, yeah, it can exist, and it performs well.
Overloaded carried me to Sumeru 😜(avoided Dendro on purpose)
PS: you're one of the few American channels to pronounce "Tartaglia" right, sadly I have only one like to give. But it seems we're over 1000 subs now 🥳
Diluc can consistently forward melt. You just need to infuse cryo (usually Kaeya or Rosaria) with Kazuha or Sucrose. Ofc with C6 Kaeya you can melt even without infusion. It's more commonly used nowadays among Diluc mains than you think.
Hehe. As you said pyro characters live and die by their multipliers with 2 forward reactions being the core gameplay of pyro it pretty much makes any new pyro character a double hydro vape bot and if this said new character just happens to have higher multipliers than hutao, then everyone will just stick to this new character and ditch hutao. Yoimiya/klee/diluc are great examples of characters that feel forgotten or whose banners just dont sell for hoyo. And i guess if there is new pyro 5star it is going to be a side grade to xiangling that scales off hp or def or maybe purely from em rather than a 5star pyro dps. And a melt pyro character feels to dank for hoyo to make since casuals are probably going to have a hard time understanding how to utilise this character
there's actually a playstyle for Ganyu that uses burning, but it can only be used with nahida. It's basically burning melt, and it's actually a pretty decent single-target team for ganyu
Apologies for the worse layout, I’m on vacation with family~~ please consider subscribing if you’re enjoying the videos I’m only 18 away from 1k and monetization!! 🎉 (Re-uploaded to fix audio and add forgotten footage 😊)
I didn't realize Yoimiya was the last Pyro Limited 5 star haha. It does feel like they're overloading with dendro right now and need to switch it up a bit.
Pyro being in a bad spot is rather unfortunate as we are in the need for an off field Pyro applicator that can enable Burgeon more easily without relying on steeper energy costs (Xiangling and Thoma) or needing Dendro/Anemo to make the process convoluted for Melt Ganyu. With Fontaine around the corner, I have hopes we can have someone to enable Vaporize for the Hydro units or to ease Xiangling's constant use/reliance with Bennett that makes those teams extremely stale to run for nearly 3 years straight now.
We need an off filed Pyro like Yelan or XQ it would be awesome to have such a character in ur account..!!!
I wish / hope we'll get some Nilou-esque character for either Burning or Burgeon. That's really what I thought Dehya was going to be when she first came out.
Well, pyro is going to come back. There’s a whole pyro focused region left. And yes, pyro isn’t focused with dendro. Fontaine is coming soon and vaporize is strong. I wouldn’t count pyro out at all.
Please do a video like this for the Geo element!
Good talking points. I have to disagree with calling Klee weak tho; she is actually very powerful when played right. I think her main issue is that people despise her playstyle and do not wish to play her, not her power level
I don't see how you can take Dehya's kit and apply that to say pyro as an element is inherently less useful.
All you would have to do to make Dehya meta is change her E application rate to 1.5 second and higher uptime like Kuki, and immediately burgeon would see more play.
Same with Diluc, Retriburgeon is a meme but the downtime in his application makes it kind of unwieldy. Right now we just have Thoma who needs ER/cons, or anemo/pyro combos.
These are not ELEMENT flaws, merely kits that don't align as well with the current dendro meta as specific other units.
At higher investments, i think most of the teams before are still competent, but the catch is on the dolphin to f2p investments. Nilou bloom and hyperbloom teams are absolutely cracked even with beggar investment, like most of my vape/melt teams that had like 1 year of investment seems a bit inferior to my hyperbloom and nilou teams, not to mention most of these old teams rely alot on bennet and xingqiu which severly limits competent team options.
I kinda think this all boils down on EM stat being a mistake, its so deviant to other stats cuz mihoyo made it so that you have to ditch half of your character's kit. If dendro reactions still scale mostly with attack or Edmg then everything would be much more stabilized and linear, every char can still utilize 100% of their kits even on different team archetypes, and mihoyo wont have to make EM stat cracked with dendro reactions just because they have to or it will be garbage.
Personally I’d love a Pyro sword user. I know Bennet exists, but I mean an on-fielder. Imagine a Pyro version of Ayaka or Al Haitham.
13:00 Three limited pyro characters is the same number we have of limited characters in electro and geo. Dendro has two, soon to become three with Baizhu. And anemo, cryo, and hydro have four. So in general the counts are pretty level, doesn't look like pyro is pulling the short end here.
Also, Hu Tao has carried me through Abyss 12 just yesterday so I'm biased against any claims that pyro is weak.
Pyro both is and isn't fine. It still deals a ton of damage, and sees heavy play in the META. I do think it requires investment, especially in artifacts. But mostly, it is held back because almost every big, early-game design mistake in the game ties to Pyro. Xingqiu the vape enabler. Xiangling's burst having no ICD… just add vape. Bennett's big atk buff… pyro resonance, healing, particle generation, and, of course, vape. Vape and melt's base multipliers are too big (so every other pyro reaction looks bad,, and so if a pyro character can't vape…). All these things just stack on each other, compounding everything, and creating the pyro dominance we saw early on, and greatly limiting the design space for pyro. If you look at melt, for example, a big part of why it is barely a blip on the radar is because there is no pyro Xingqiu, nor a cryo Xiangling. So there's little design space for pyro, as things currently stand.
Meanwhile, most every other reaction is problematic. And, yes, I'd include swirl with that. Most teams don't really care about swirl. They care about VV, grouping, and DMG/EM. Or, in other words, they don't want an anemo. They want Kaz, and sometimes Sucrose, and if they can't have those, they won't use an anemo at all. When we say "anemo", we really mean just those two characters. The game really needs to introduce some non-anemo groupers to open up the design space for other anemo characters.
That said, as far as Dehya goes, her kit has a lot of issues. Vaping her burst? Pretty much irrelevant. Her burst doesn't snapshot, and she zips around during it, so not exactly the best to use with Benny's burst, and that's part of what makes Vape good. And, well, her numbers are small, especially at C0, so boosting them by 50% doesn't change much. Mostly, it just makes people think they can't use Yelan to carry her. And that's actually not quite true. You can easily use Dehya's burst, and when it runs out, then use Yelan's. And when that runs out, hey, time for Dehya's again. Works fine. Besides, her best on-field team isn't one that tries to use her as the "carry" anyway. She's actually better off being paired with Nahida and Kuki + a fourth of your choice (I prefer Fischl), working as an on-field enabler while off-fielders, ones who need minimal on-field time for max off-field damage, do the DPS work. Then she functions a lot more like Zhongli in a team, as a character that somewhat adds to the damage, but mostly just enables you to ignore what enemies do, which creates an overall very effective team because you avoid other situations that would otherwise cost you DPS.
Oddly enough, that means that bit about how people think Genshin doesn't work with the idea of "tank" role is actually kind of wrong. Thanks to the power of Nahida (and various other strong off-field DPS types) and Dehya being better at protecting herself than anything else, yeah, it can exist, and it performs well.
Well, Dendro is a new element and we are in sumeru yet. It make sense why.
Stong wave of units Pyro will come back when Natlan comes around with Murata herself.
For now, It's fontaine. So more new hydro units.
Overloaded carried me to Sumeru 😜(avoided Dendro on purpose)
PS: you're one of the few American channels to pronounce "Tartaglia" right, sadly I have only one like to give. But it seems we're over 1000 subs now 🥳
pyro for me is strong, but boring, it's always vaporize and vaporize, and I play mono geo and have more fun
Pyro still good, Xiangling is still overpowered and Thoma is very, very good for Burgeon
Cryo tho, they are definitely lacking
Diluc can consistently forward melt. You just need to infuse cryo (usually Kaeya or Rosaria) with Kazuha or Sucrose. Ofc with C6 Kaeya you can melt even without infusion. It's more commonly used nowadays among Diluc mains than you think.
Another great video! Love hearing from you. Please keep making them.
answer, yes i now only have a 2 minute average time on spiral chambers as an f2p player instead of 1 minute 45 🙁
Hehe. As you said pyro characters live and die by their multipliers with 2 forward reactions being the core gameplay of pyro it pretty much makes any new pyro character a double hydro vape bot and if this said new character just happens to have higher multipliers than hutao, then everyone will just stick to this new character and ditch hutao. Yoimiya/klee/diluc are great examples of characters that feel forgotten or whose banners just dont sell for hoyo. And i guess if there is new pyro 5star it is going to be a side grade to xiangling that scales off hp or def or maybe purely from em rather than a 5star pyro dps.
And a melt pyro character feels to dank for hoyo to make since casuals are probably going to have a hard time understanding how to utilise this character
there's actually a playstyle for Ganyu that uses burning, but it can only be used with nahida. It's basically burning melt, and it's actually a pretty decent single-target team for ganyu
Dehya Immortal Burgeon with Dehya Barbara Kuki Nahida FTW