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we need a BURNING NICHE SUPPORT!!!!!! anyways join my disc lets get goofy together; https://discord.gg/KdXMjeGuq5
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People just want an excuse to skip xianyun
I just wanted Cloud Retainer not be niche because she is important in the story.
I don't think she will be bad because of it, but I wanted something else.
I think with the exception of Shenhe who is a 5-star too many of the 4-star niche buffers require C6 to be significantly effective. With Chevreuse I hope Hoyo is reversing the trend they started back in 2.4, because she is quite effective at C0 and things only get better with more constellations. With some of the other 4-star niche buffers I didn't even bother building them until C6.
Well put, Juice! And hilarious as always. BTW, I got Chevreuse at c6 now but still waiting on C2 Raiden. I can smell the rain in the air though; she's on her way.
I added the damage from those charts between Rosaria and Shenhe… It wasn't that big of a difference.
Fun fact: both of my Faruzan and Gorou is still C5 since last year
It's an expression of Genshin pain
NIche is bad compared with other units that add more to the team. It's the opportunity cost of wishing for the character that does not add as much to multiple teams.
I was one of the fortunate souls to get c6 Faruzan before C2 wanderer
Now my Xiao is still thriving especially with the added addition of Furina and soon cough yeah that bird lady
I think they are cool when they are a 5 and perfect at c0 but they suck if they are 4 because at worst they do not work at all pre-c6 and at best they are barely mid but still pointless
if I'm already a fan of a niche type I'd gladly invest in a 5* but going c6 on a 4* is up to the whims of RNG and you might have to waste pity on several 5's you dont care about to get them
also in the case of old characters in the game with existing hype and people looking forward to them for years those shouldn't end up terrible and stuck to a micro-niche, it's just not fair to fans
Problem with niche supports is that in genshin they are overly niche which makes them lose value like they're falling off a cliff if you can't field strong team for their niche.
Niche support like Mika is so niche even within phys dps which is both niche and outdated, that he has literally nothing to offer to anyone that's not Eula, and even Eula doesn't want him as her first option. It leaves him in the spot where only people that field him are ones who don't care that he's not doing anything.
Faruzan is in the similar spot to Mika, except Anemo has 2 options for Faruzan to hyper buff.
Sara is in the same boat as Mika, Raiden/Yae mega carry comps or value off the cliff.
Don't get me wrong, seeing Raiden bust out 2.7mil initial slash due to Sara's C6 makes me a little bit wet too. However it's not a good spot for the characters and game to move towards. Because, that's how other gachas end up with 300+ characters, where every 5 star/SSR/Crystal character has their own specially designed niche supports that are impossible to get due to sheer number of supports, let alone getting their required ascensions/cons/limit breaks/ etc.
Ideal support design imo in genshin currently is Shenhe.
She can be a buffer to multiple different teams, she can be good enough Main cryo dps with Rosaria sub to 36*, her buffs have consistent value due to being based on her E stacks, not on the amount of targets you can hit like Jun'jin. Hoyo shouldn't go broader than Shenhe, since it would overly dilute what that support is buffing. However getting close to Faruzan's, Sara's and Mika's level of niche is too far imo.
Genshin can make 6 more Shenhe's for 6 other elements with slight element based variations if they wanted to.
Hoyo should add Faruzan to Xiao's banner as well. Or heck, update Paimon's bargains and add the new four stars!
I think in theory they are good for Genshin. In practice, they aren't well implemented. Many issues:
1) Genshin has OP non-niche supports. Which means the niche supports are not replacements for those. They aren't even better than them, typically. Shenhe, for example, is the 4th character you add to an Ayaka team. There is the exception that is Faruzan, but that's primarily due to the nature of the anemo DPSs.
2) Most of them aren't good at c0. Chev is, but she's the exception. With the pain of getting a four star to C6, this is not good.
3) Most of them are tied to certain 5 star character's banners. This makes it painful to get them. They don't come around as often, and you wind up having to pull on ones you don't want. This would be less of an issue if #2 wasn't the case, but it is.
4) Then there's Gorou. He's overly niche. If he'd been just a def buffer, he'd be fine. If he'd been just geo, he'd be fine. If he didn't require 3 geos on the team, he'd be fine. But he's a def+geo buffer that wants 3 geos on the team. And this is very bad for the geo design space, as can be seen thanks to the latest OP general buffer we have in the game and her impact on Itto.
5) There's the risk that the five star is then seen as needing the niche support to be competitive. Again, this is seen with both Faruzan and Gorou's impact on their respective anemo and geo DPS. And this is bad, due to #2 and #3.
So due to that, we have issues with most of the niche supports. Shenhe is the 4th slot, and outdone by general supports for cryo. Before her C6, she could just be a four star. Faruzan wants C6. Gorou is overly niche. Sara wants C2 and is clunky. Yun Jin is a niche support that is generally inferior to a general support (hiya, Benny!) even for characters in her niche, but doesn't synergize with Benny as, say, Chevy does, which means she loses out to him for the team spot. Mika was designed by someone with no clue what physical actually needs. The only well designed one is Chev, and she still suffers a bit from an OP general support existing, being almost always used with Benny.
Basically, way back when, Hoyoverse should just have nerfed Bennett. He's been warping the design space pretty much since launch, and they should addressed that the moment the problem became apparent. They didn't, and this has put supports, and other things really, in a weird spot ever since. Supports are, in general, too powerful.
Now we just need them to fix pysical characters ( dont mean buffs but rather the way enemies work when put up agaist them) to much resists and not that many options that are as you said "tailor made " for it dps or suports we need some navia lvls of thinking to do this i just hope… i Cant be the only one that cares about a rework or at least update to this characters or am i XD
NAH i want even more Niche supports that do crazier things, like one that makes melee characters and only melee characters automatically teleport to the nearest target when attacking.
Jesus loves you ❤️ please turn to him and repent before it's too late. The end times described in the Bible are already happening in the world.
you just need 2 hyper bloom team for any abbys in this game
why would we need anymore character when there no end game to use them ?
that the real question
Niche supports are bad because the resources in this game are extremely limited so you want as few characters as possible to do as many roles and things as possible. They are also bad because the game is easy and even using buffs in the first place is unnecessary outside F12. Most of the time, using a subDPS provides comparable extra damage as the niche supports, often even better at lower invstment.
By limited resources I mean both resin/grind time, and gacha pulls but honestly the former might be the greater problem.
Niche supports are also bad for players who prefers to build their teams on character appearance. Oh, you only play male characters? Well too bad, your Xiao is still weak because you're not using Faruzan. You prefer females? Well too bad, your Faruzan is useless because she can only buff male units.
Finally they are also bad because they are more vulnerable to powercreep. Like look at Kujou Sara, she is barely if any better even on Raiden teams compared to other options. But if you don't play her there, you won't play her anywhere.
4:53 Am I blind or do these have like almost the same amount of damage?
Niche supports are fine for the game if they're powerful enough to replace strong units like Kazuha, Bennet, Xiangling even. Because you need two teams in the Abyss this allows these strong units to be use on the second which is a good thing. Ideally they should be usable at c0.
Chevreuse is a great example for this. She is completely usable at c0 and enables overload teams more with pure electro and Pyro units in a team. Ofc she gets better with cons and at c6, you can forgo one of your Pyro or electro unit for a different element. The only thing you'll miss out is the shred.
Saying wanderer is not a good unit without Faruzan while Xiao is good with her is definitely the worst take i heard since the game released. Wanderer dogs on Xiao in every scenario especially Aoe. This is coming from someone with a top 3% xiao and 1% wanderer
Am I stupid or missing something or is 4:50 roughly the same total team damage? Kazuha and Shenhe's Damage together is 50k lower than Rosaria's and Kazuha's. But Ayaka ends up making up for it with 50k more.
Adding all the numbers together it comes out to 4k more damage from Shenhe team
niche supports are not bad actually we need more, but you need to get c6 to get decent value is bad😢
I agree that Niche Supports are good for the game but if only they are 4 stars being a 5 star Niche Support is sucks and don't justify the amount of grinding for that unite, bing 5 star Niche is not worth it tbh even if they make that one team way stronger
Nahida or raiden
My other 5 stars are Neuvillette, furina, navia, wriothesley,baizhu
Exactly how I feel. You agree with me so I enjoyed the video lol.
they made Gorou not doing almost any damage with the fact that his contrubution as a buffer to the team is the same as Faruzan or Sara. But with time and new characters like Furina with her insane buffs even niche supports can be replaced. That's so said seeing their pickrate drop. While Faruzan revived Xiao and was added to the game with Scara, Gorou just was meant to buff 2,5 characters lol.
I knew from the very Gorou release the DEF buffer is not a good idea. If they wanted to revive Geo DPS characters who are scaling of DEF they should then keep adding them more, but they just forgot. Plus all the DPS characters like Noelle and Itto just use their DEF to actually boost atk and DEF buffs are needed for Yunjin or Albedo only. They shoul've made Gorou buffing atk but slightly more than DEF just like Sara provides somewhere near 700 atk that would be much better and he would be much more useful in Navia teams or just for making crystals, buffing non-geo character ATK even at C0, but they decided to get some money from a really niche support who will get his rerun only once a year (388 days since Gorou had a rerun) and to earn almost nothing from this.
Great video, i really wnjoy your work, and completely agree with yout point, niche supports give people the opportunity to play the characters they like more efficiently! Btw, love the memes, they make me make me… w e t t t t
Honestly, it all boils down to the Paimon shop being god awful because t doesn't include rate up 4*s. Coming from a c6 Faruzan haver since 3.6
Short answer, no.
This game has a roster of 75 that grows by 17 units a year. There is no reality where every support unit has universal coverage or even mostly universal coverage over every element and playstyle. For the longest time nearly every character’s peak damage potential was tied to Kazuha or Bennett. At least this way teams are diversified. We also don’t know what the future holds for character releases. A future region could have a playstyle centered around something like plunge attacks
Thank you for this amazing video
As a Geo (and specifically Noelle) main most of my playstyle is enabled by niche supports, so they certainly have their place and can be great in their specialization. It's when you try to slot them into teams outside their niche where compromises start popping up, and the degree can very depending on how specialized the character's kit is or not.
I mean, hooray for gameplay variety, since if the devs didn't attempt to do so, Genshin would get stale quite quickly.
If we dont get niche characters we get generalist characters like bennet xiangling and xingqiu which are terrible for the game
People say Chevreuse is useuable at C0, this is a lie.
Chevreuse either needs c4 or c6 to be mostly useable.
The extra res shred is quite phenomenal especially since you can only slot in chevreuse is all of your team mates or both electro and pyro. She's literally the nilou of overloaded.
You are losing the extra buff points if you remove one pyro/electro unit.
She's not just niche but heavily cons gated if you want to be optimal and deal big dmg.
On the topic of niche units, tl;dr is that they are mostly bad.
A certain fat bearded genshin creator once said, if you the unit is only restricted to a certain team/playstyle they become instantly bad and terrible. Because it limits freedom in teambuilding. (you know who i am talking about)
Honestly I'm all for a support that greatly buffs certain few characters but having them as 5 stars or having half their kits locked behind constellations makes it painful
your videos are kinda real
This Is The First Vid Ive Seen From You And Really Liked It
(You Kinda Sound Like The Youtuber Dr Wily)